10:26 willrich45 : Mine would be an empty truck, two computers and a DV cam
10:27 dwaltman : i like ooVoo interface but I don't think it can be recorded/archived/broadcasted
10:28 dwaltman : looking forward to interview...I am almost through the book
10:29 willrich45 : It can if you use Camtwist with Ustream...
10:29 willrich45 : anything from the desktop can be pushed through
10:30 dwaltman : learn something every day
10:31 dwaltman : just for mac though?
10:34 willrich45 : y
10:34 willrich45 : but there is a PC equiv...can't think of its name offhand
10:35 dwaltman : i am looking as Super Webcam now...
10:43 snbeach : Hi chat room-- what's up!
10:43 coten : first time viewer to ustream: not sure just how to begin. I'm not seeing a play button? hope to watch the clay shirky interview
10:43 snbeach : @coten it is coming-- closer to 11am edt
10:44 coten : will it play automatically
10:44 snbeach : @coten it will play for you once Will and Clay come on.
10:44 snbeach : yes
10:45 coten : thanks so much
10:48 snbeach : yes you sound great
10:48 snbeach : absolutely!
10:48 dwaltman : audio sounds good
10:49 dwaltman : location? I'm near Rochester, NY
10:49 snbeach : Virginia Beach, Va
10:49 edueyeview : Lisbon, Maine
10:49 dwaltman : i'm sure the twitter world will be joining shortly
10:50 snbeach : Thanks Dwaltman
10:51 snbeach : ustreamers- if you log in we can see your usernames
10:51 dwaltman : @willrich45 how long are you planning for the interview...kids want to know lunch plans
10:51 willrich45 : @45 mins or so
10:51 snbeach : Will be easier when submitting questions during the interview to attach a name rather than a number
10:52 jbecker : Here comes everybody to this interview...has that bad joke been used yet?
10:52 snbeach : hahahaha
10:52 willrich45 : nice
10:54 akamrt : what is the process for submitting ?s
10:54 JBurkeMaine : Got it. . .
10:54 snbeach : We will submit in the chat room
10:54 snbeach : I will scan for Qs
10:54 JBurkeMaine : I see. . . that was a one to one, Sarah. .
10:55 snbeach : and pass along to Will
10:55 JBurkeMaine : <---dense old guy
10:55 dserrato : hi all
10:55 dserrato : hey jon
10:55 jbecker : @snbeach...hope it's a little cooler in the eastern part of the state than here in Central VA
10:55 jbecker : hey dan
10:56 akamrt : @snbeach thanks!
10:56 snbeach : ahhh that jbecker- Hi Jon
10:56 ShawnKball-1 : any audio yet?
10:56 snbeach : @akamrt.. welcome
10:56 snbeach : nope ShawnKball not yet
10:56 ShawnKball-1 : trying a diferent computer--new MacBook
10:56 snbeach : Audio now
10:56 ShawnKball-1 : thanks got some now
10:56 snbeach : smile
10:56 jbecker : @dan - early a.m in your part of the country, huh?
10:56 dserrato : 8am
10:57 dserrato : and already hot in Fresno
10:57 snbeach : anyone else lose audio?
10:57 snbeach : nevermind
10:57 snbeach : whistling while we wait
10:58 mrsdurff : i have no audio
10:58 snbeach : @jbecker it is sunny and hot here at the beach
10:58 akamrt : no audio here
10:58 snbeach : @durff not suppose to yet
10:58 jbecker : @snbeach -but at least you've got the beach!
10:58 mrsdurff : ok worried me
10:58 snbeach : @jbecker.. indeed
10:58 JBurkeMaine : Gosh. . . quite a Maine contingent here this morning . . .
10:59 JBurkeMaine : Hi Alice.
10:59 Valaina : Is there audio?
10:59 mrsdurff : more coffee...
10:59 snbeach : While we are waiting for Clay to get his video connected-- let's give our locations
10:59 JBurkeMaine : Will be, Valaina. . .
10:59 snbeach : Va Beach , Va
10:59 jbecker : Richmond, VA
10:59 briangrenier : El Paso, TX
10:59 Valaina : Manassas, VA
10:59 JBurkeMaine : West Paris, Maine
10:59 edueyeview-1 : Lisbon, ME
10:59 darrendraper : Logan, UT
10:59 dwaltman : Rochester NY
10:59 teacherjim : Question for Clteacherjim-Belchertown, MA
11:00 nnorris : Chicago, IL
11:00 thart : Orono, ME
11:00 dserrato : Fresno, CA
11:00 featheredflowers : Kildeer, IIL
11:00 mrsdurff : i have 11:00EDT here
11:00 reggieryan : mt prospect, il- usa
11:00 snbeach : We will be staring in minutes.. great representation from across US any international folks with us?
11:00 snbeach : starting
11:01 snbeach : of course we could stare too
11:01 mrsdurff : Hagerstown, Maryland with decaf Starbucks
11:01 ShawnKball-1 : Levant Maine
11:01 dserrato : ohh, gotta get coffee before we start
11:01 dwaltman : had audio...none now
11:01 featheredflowers : no audio
11:01 snbeach : We will start in just a few- Clay is with Will adjusting settings
11:01 snbeach : dwaltman-- audio off for now
11:02 teacherjim : Question: part 1 According to Coase ìAn organization will tend to grow only when the advantages that can be gotten from directing the work of additional employees are less that the transactional costs of managing themî
11:02 teacherjim : Question paart 2It seems to me that this is what school boards look at when they decide on class size. If we think of students as mass produced products this makes sense, but we have to think of students as custom made products. It is the question of quantity vs. quality.
11:02 dwaltman : echo
11:02 reggieryan : audio OK
11:02 jennylu : Jenny Luca here- 1.00am in australia
11:02 dwaltman : echo
11:02 mrsdurff : no audio
11:02 teacherjim : OK
11:02 ShawnKball-1 : good audio
11:02 Jackson224 : ok
11:02 dwaltman : echo
11:02 alicebarr : we can hear
11:02 mrsdurff : refreshing
11:02 Valaina : yes]
11:02 JBurkeMaine : Loud and clear here, Will
11:02 snbeach : some delay.. but can hear
11:02 dwaltman : echo
11:02 akamrt : Loud and clear
11:02 dserrato : I can here, but it gets a little choppy
11:03 featheredflowers : yes
11:03 edueyeview-1 : Audio is fine
11:03 snbeach : We are live!
11:03 Jackson224 : some reverb
11:03 kstevens : not logged it. out to drop off money. envious of everyone here
11:03 mrsdurff : no audio still
11:03 jennylu : can hear fine
11:03 snbeach : Hi everyone!
11:03 dserrato : good title - chat captain
11:03 snbeach : teacherjim I got yours..
11:03 traceymcgrath : Hi Sheryl
11:03 teacherjim : Thanks
11:04 snbeach : hi tracey
11:04 Jackson224 : yes
11:04 ShawnKball-1 : all set
11:04 teacherjim : yes
11:04 dwaltman : yes...can hear Clay
11:04 snbeach : Hi Clay!
11:04 snbeach : yes we can
11:04 Valaina : good Clay sound
11:04 snbeach : woo hoo
11:04 minznerjosh : sounds great!
11:04 snbeach : sounds great
11:04 mrsdurff : gonna try the laptop
11:05 darrendraper : I'm so sorry I've got to run. :( Will try to drop in later or will have to catch the recording. Great stuff, Will and Clay - thanks for broadcasting this!
11:05 jennylu : Dropping in out with audio for me- must be buffering
11:05 snbeach : http://www.amazon.com/Here-Comes-Everybody-Organizing-Organizations/dp/1594201536
11:05 snbeach : You can post your questions here and I will feed them to Will and Clay as they occur...
11:06 bwoof : audio is great for us in Canada
11:06 snbeach : cool thanks bwoof
11:06 akamrt : ? How do you see the Tragedy of the Commons playing out in the education world? Will students take over the educational process if institutions don't begin to change how they view the entire process?
11:06 snbeach : Thanks @akmart
11:06 featheredflowers : Techtonics. Love the term.
11:07 snbeach : akamrt
11:07 beyondschool : audio good in Seoul
11:07 snbeach : Welcome Seoul
11:07 beyondschool : hello :)
11:07 snbeach : We are glad you are here.
11:08 snbeach : What does networked society look like as a whole?
11:08 dwaltman : Literacy is so important....will this shift be able to overcome illiteracy for the world's poor?
11:08 snbeach : awesome question dwaltman- thxs
11:09 mrsdurff : i hope he is recording this
11:09 beyondschool : i can't see how amateurization, volunteerism, and lack of institutional structure can guarantee coherent education for all students. so...
11:09 snbeach : He is...
11:09 snbeach : recording that is....
11:09 featheredflowers : How do you see the digital divide impacting the future?
11:10 snbeach : hmmm....
11:10 beyondschool : i don't see how "unorganized" education can look. i'm trying.
11:10 snbeach : I educated my kids through an unorg edc mode-- unschooling
11:10 dwaltman : i think education will become less institutionalized and more individualized
11:10 mrsdurff : ha sound - another USB drive died
11:11 beyondschool : i'm talking about for all kids, not ones whose parents can afford it.
11:11 snbeach : afford? not seeing that connection
11:11 beyondschool : so far Shirky is talking within the school structure.
11:11 akamrt : @beyondschool not unorganized - but allow students to organize their path, give them control over direction instead of prescribing it. Re-imagine the process so that it takes advantage of collaborative dynamics
11:12 beyondschool : @akamrt so we're still inside of schools.
11:12 akamrt : and the tools of group communication
11:12 melching5 : I think this allows teachers to individualize more effectively for each student
11:12 akamrt : sure - why not? Academic freedom needs to be redefined in terms of the students control over their learning program
11:12 beyondschool : @snbeach kids whose parents work, are uneducated, whatever
11:12 mrsdurff : people congregate around learning opportunities
11:13 snbeach : Schools role is hosting edc encounters
11:13 mrsdurff : schools have a view of themselves that they are indispensable
11:13 plvitf : I think that if schools don't change and expand, they do become irrelevant.
11:13 snbeach : schools are one node in the network of learning choices
11:14 plvitf : @snbeach Those are two great quotes.
11:14 mrsdurff : i think US schools are irrelevant
11:14 beyondschool : @akamrt Shirky's thrust is "organizing without organization" - I guess I'm extending it to THE organization of schools.
11:14 snbeach : @plvit one is Clay one is Will
11:14 plvitf : @mrsdurff That's a very broad statement
11:14 mrsdurff : organising without schools
11:14 mrsdurff : it is broad and sadly true
11:14 plvitf : @snbeach How polite of you to take credit... :)
11:15 akamrt : @beyondschool schools provide the chance to learn, but rarely experience, what if a kid wants to study architecture and biology in order to earn become a biology architect . . . he knows best what he is looking to accomplish - let him design his program and offer killer courses for him to choose fro
11:15 snbeach : @plvitf- Did I? I didn't mean to...
11:15 bwoof : students still seem to want face-t0-face...i.e, for their sports, debate teams, etc.
11:15 mrsdurff : i'm refering to the k12 public schools of course
11:15 featheredflowers : How do you feel the shift will affect the profession of "teacher"?
11:15 dwaltman : many teachers balk at collaboration or "group work" because of absenteeism, grading issues....need to find ways to overcome this
11:15 mrsdurff : if we aren't working ourselves out of a job, are we doing our job?
11:15 jennylu : @dwaltman Google Docs -can work on them at home
11:16 bwoof : universities need to adapt their entrance models...as long as they admit on grades, then we feel the pressure for marks in K-12
11:16 melching5 : @mrsdurff you should not lump all schools together. we are working within an imposed organizational structure and hoping to find ways areound it
11:16 snbeach : @akamrt I so agree...
11:16 mrsdurff : i feel that way strongly
11:16 plvitf : @snbeach Oops, typed that wrong, I meant give them credit.
11:16 mrsdurff : schools as we know them must implode
11:16 snbeach : @plvitf oh good. Thxs
11:16 akamrt : @dwaltman - the comunication tools the kids are using make attendence a non-issue, do kids need to be in a seat x-hours a week or is it about the new ideas they generate via real learning projects where they make something new out of what they learn
11:16 dwaltman : anyone see Randy P.'s "last lecture"? i loved how he had students evaluate each other on their group contributions AND made it public to all participants
11:17 mrsdurff : the entire political structure must pass away
11:17 plvitf : @mrsdurff I think that there are too many people who complain about schools and not enough welling to step out on a limb and do something about it.
11:17 mrsdurff : it is founded upon an industrial paradigm
11:17 beyondschool : i'm with shirky here on schools providing basic skills - so up to middle school, maybe.
11:17 plvitf : @mrsdurff I don't necessarily mean you, since I obviously have no clue who you are.
11:17 beyondschool : i'm stuck questioning the value of high school.
11:17 mrsdurff : i know that
11:17 snbeach : Which thinking tools are best for which challenges...Clay said..
11:18 featheredflowers : How do we ensure accountability of student learning as individuals?
11:18 dwaltman : attendance seems to be necessary when groups present the "final product" of their collaboration....I've had teachers really complain about this
11:18 snbeach : Post your questions for Clay here.
11:18 ShawnKball-1 : Society has to change before we simply let kids stay home and on their computer instead of getting on the bus.
11:18 bwoof : beyond school, I, too, question high schools and I'm a vice-principal of one!
11:18 featheredflowers : I've posted 3 questions so far.
11:18 mrsdurff : i think the idea of homeschooling is more relevant to the information age
11:18 snbeach : I have shared them feathered flowers on a back channel
11:18 mrsdurff : but age grouping is so confining
11:18 ShawnKball-1 : it looks like we have to do more with self-reflection and structured e-portfolios
11:18 melching5 : that is a quote! we are being forced to measure a vaery narrow set of goals
11:18 bwoof : Clay, how do we 'assess' and get 'grades' that universities and colleges will accept?
11:19 akamrt : @dwaltman that can be an issue - but if the experience is designed to spark the creative spirit that lurks inside each kid (via giving them more control) I don't think presentation attendence would be at issue
11:19 mrsdurff : 66
11:19 plvitf : To add on to bwoof's question, that multiple colleges and universities can agree on.
11:20 beyondschool : drop out of high school, self-study for the GED and move on to college or life early - is that an option?
11:20 mrsdurff : barriers to self-organisation
11:20 wfryer : the key focus needs to be changing the high school bell schedule. That is challenge #1.
11:20 cyndidannerkuhn : Hello from hays, KS
11:20 snbeach : Apprenticeship is a real option...
11:20 mrsdurff : hi cyndi
11:20 snbeach : @cyndidannerkuhn welcome
11:21 featheredflowers : How can education globally be offered equally when there are countries pushing aggressive initiatives toward others?
11:21 mrsdurff : good qt
11:21 bwoof : Do we as a culture value apprenticeships? Or do we think we all need to go to Harvard?
11:21 beyondschool : so if "the role of the teacher is still essential", education doesn't parallel the media examples (blogs v. journalism, eg) shirky writes about in HCE.
11:21 snbeach : Thanks @featheredflowers..
11:21 dwaltman : the collaborative skills of our students is very low (middle-class district) ...I have seen kids organize occassionally around interest but not for learning or problem-solving
11:21 wfryer : @featheredflowers define "aggressive initiatives"
11:21 ShawnKball-1 : NWEA formative assessment can tell us where a child is along the learning continuum
11:21 mrsdurff : so many countries seems ahead of USA
11:21 plvitf : @snbeach Can you or will copy all of these quotes down in one of your blogs?? I can't type and listen that well :)
11:22 snbeach : @plvitf sure
11:22 mrsdurff : but there is still age grouping even in homeschooling
11:22 snbeach : Not always mrsdurff
11:22 jennylu : We have to remember they are still kids -they are still going to need guidance regardless of their ability to use the tools
11:22 snbeach : Actually colleges seek homeschooled students out because they are self directed
11:22 akamrt : @beyondschool teachers still very essential, they have the life/learning experience that allows them to design authentic learning architectures for students to learn and develop new thought around that learning
11:22 wfryer : yes, gas prices are definitely making more people look at videoconferencing
11:22 beyondschool : akamrt: up to middle school, i agree
11:23 snbeach : yeah and I bet it will be someone in this group
11:23 featheredflowers : hateful biased education that encourages aggressive attitudes toward others.
11:23 mrsdurff : it would seem NZ and the UK are ahead of us
11:23 snbeach : Let's start a college guys.. wanna?
11:23 wfryer : every kid gets a laptop in public schools. that should be a given.
11:23 akamrt : however, too much teaching is not designed for learning - it is designed for disseminating a particular POV
11:23 mrsdurff : the wrinkles
11:23 plvitf : @snbeach I'm up for it. I've always wanted to dabble teaching college classes.
11:23 mrsdurff : how do we ensure people are not caught in the wrinkles
11:24 snbeach : Mobile phones and gaming..
11:24 dwaltman : being networked was always an advantage...it's not the ivy League education but the Ivy League connections that are valuable
11:24 cyndidannerkuhn : I am in on starting that college, but lets leave the network nazi's out!
11:24 teacherjim : Virtual High School is offering many students a quality ed outside the school buildings.
11:24 akamrt : @snbeach count me in!
11:24 mrsdurff : while the tops close appearing to be a flattening world?
11:24 jennylu : @wfryer you still have to educate your teachers how to use professional networking tools - just getting a laptop won't do it
11:24 snbeach : and we can network w/o traditional means
11:24 nnorris : @snbeach - I'm in
11:24 wfryer : getting a college which is "new" and created accredited and recognized is the key. What we need is an independent accrediting org which has street cred.
11:24 ShawnKball-1 : virtual schools are the future for those who want to go above and beyond in grades 5-12 and college
11:24 BethRitterGuth : hey all
11:24 featheredflowers : Global Classroom
11:24 mrsdurff : @teacherjim - but is there age grouping?
11:25 cyndidannerkuhn : I agree WFryer
11:25 teacherjim : Yes
11:25 snbeach : @wfryer- depends on who is doing the accrediting
11:25 wfryer : @jennylu of course! getting the tools in everyone's hands is job 1 however. That is the egg- without it we don't get a chicken.
11:25 mrsdurff : i think the situation is even more urgent in k12
11:25 wfryer : @snbeach right, but my point is we need other voices (nontraditional) than Southern Association and others
11:25 Deacs84 : @snbeach I would argue that our ability to network this way trumps the network value that traditionalists have held so dear--and kept so "insider"
11:25 snbeach : Post your Questions here for Clay and I will pass them on
11:25 cyndidannerkuhn : NCATE is a tough process and folks generally are not very tech savvy
11:26 ewargo : ISTE for accrediation?
11:26 mrsdurff : school is a consumptive mode
11:26 snbeach : @ Deacs84 good point-- back from your appt!
11:26 mrsdurff : that is passive learning
11:26 wfryer : not all schools even care about NCATE anymore tho, cyndi... UT Austin doesn't even mess with NCATE anymore
11:26 mrsdurff : which is a BIG problem
11:26 dwaltman : last year when I had a "post a comment on a blog" assignment, I had kids ask..."you want us to talk to strangers online?" and this was a totally serious concern for them...blew me away
11:26 Deacs84 : No--I found wifi here at the dealership--and watching a student with her macbook taking online course! Go mini-cooper!
11:26 snbeach : @wfryer so do we create our own accreditation process the way NBCT did
11:26 wfryer : @ewargo maybe ISTE-- it needs to be an org / group with street credibility
11:26 snbeach : through NEA
11:27 cyndidannerkuhn : Yeah for Austin, wish that was the case where I am now and where I am going
11:27 ShawnKball-1 : Parents are not ready for this change so kids cannot do it unles they have Geeky parents or peers that are hooked on learning. How do we focus their learning?
11:27 wfryer : @snbeach I need to learn more about what NBCT did to answer that...
11:27 mrsdurff : bingo
11:27 mrsdurff : the parents aren't ready
11:28 jbecker : there is an alternative to NCATE...it's called TEAC
11:28 plvitf : I don't think the parents because we haven't made them ready.
11:28 wfryer : @ShawnKball-1 you are right, most parents and teachers are not ready. that is why we can't put these changes up to a group vote. Leaders need to lead and bring along the sheep.
11:28 mrsdurff : audio?
11:28 Jackson224 : froze
11:28 dwaltman : lost audio
11:28 jbecker : audio?
11:28 fsinfo : lost audio
11:28 christytucker : video and audio froze
11:28 snbeach : NEA decided they would create an accreditation process for teaching and develop NBCT process
11:28 dserrato : lost connection
11:28 minznerjosh : lost audio
11:28 JBurkeMaine : Lost audio
11:28 wfryer : audio is gone for me too
11:28 snbeach : audio
11:28 Jackson224 : reconnect?
11:28 cyndidannerkuhn : no audo
11:28 mrsdurff : oh so not just me
11:28 bwoof : audio lost in Canada as well
11:28 melching5 : froze
11:28 BethRitterGuth : <censored> audio
11:28 wfryer : we have crashed ustream....
11:28 wfryer : :-(
11:28 mrsdurff : oops
11:28 snbeach : He is rebooting
11:28 snbeach : playing elevator music
11:28 BethRitterGuth : lol
11:28 snbeach : juggling
11:28 mrsdurff : you are so reassuring
11:28 BethRitterGuth : see what happens when you post on twitter!
11:28 featheredflowers : o
11:29 JBurkeMaine : Anyone tap dance?
11:29 metaweb : I saw it on Plurk
11:29 jgates513 : @snbeach - don't sing!
11:29 snbeach : hahaha@ BethRitterGuth
11:29 featheredflowers : Hi fsinfo
11:29 BethRitterGuth : I have plopped my plurk
11:29 beyondschool : so jesus, socrates, and buddha walk into a bar...
11:29 Deacs84 : Until we make the language "accessible" regarding the shift--make it less "edubabble" and "techy" then the parents and mainstream aren't going to get it. That is why i like Shirky's book. It is more linear and clear for non-intuiters to grasp
11:29 JBurkeMaine : lol
11:29 mrsdurff : @feather globalclassroom is pretty much in the USA, isn't it?
11:29 wfryer : so what did NBCT do with accrediting?
11:29 beyondschool : ...and the bartender says, "Wait a minute. I've already heard this one."
11:29 akamrt : A key would be to design a teachers college that was predicated on the use of communication/collaboration tools that youth are already using - create a learning architecture with the indigenous technologies of today . . .
11:29 nstearns : It's not so hard. Baby steps.
11:29 jbecker : for those interested, www.teach.org
11:29 featheredflowers : @wfryer not anymore
11:29 jbecker : sorry...www.teac.org
11:29 featheredflowers : I stretched it at NECC
11:29 snbeach : @jgates513 frowning
11:30 akamrt : then teachers begin entering the classroom with an acute understanding of the tools place in the architecture
11:30 BethRitterGuth : teaching parents is so incredibly important
11:30 featheredflowers : Hi jgates513
11:30 BethRitterGuth : but, we have to reach them where they are
11:30 jennylu : We need to find another way to sell it -we need to be preparing our students for the type of business world they will be entering - I think this is a way to convince paretns of the validity of getting their children involved in networked environments
11:30 jbecker : NCATE says "here are our standards, tell us how you've met them..."
11:30 metaweb : if ya wanna check out Lively .. stop by the EduBloggers Lounge http://tinyurl.com/5bntpl
11:30 BethRitterGuth : have open house nights where they can see what their kids are doing
11:30 notxes : best takeaway: social disconnection as important at technological disconnection
11:30 dwaltman : Shirky, among others, make the point that significant change occurs when these tools are mainstream....which obviously hasn't happened yet....I see the most promise for the cell phone as the #1 tool
11:30 beyondschool : snbeach: a conservative forecast: schools don't face the same challenge that mainstream media does. that's my takeaway.
11:30 Deacs84 : Sheryl and Will's PLP model is a really good place to start building the community for teachers...
11:30 snbeach : hahah Jbecker so true
11:30 jbecker : TEAC says, "tell us what YOUR standards are and how you've met them..."
11:30 mrsdurff : Family Internet Night @Beth
11:30 snbeach : dwaltman in what way? tell me more
11:30 snbeach : thanks Deacs84
11:30 wfryer : @Deacs84 i agree to a point. we can't turn people off with acronyms and vocab they don't understand. but we also need people to learn new terms and concepts.
11:31 mrsdurff : do you think he knows he is offair?
11:31 Deacs84 : @dwaltman I agree
11:31 snbeach : yes he does
11:31 snbeach : working on it
11:31 featheredflowers : @Deacs84 I agree and have collaborated a focused districts personalized idea.
11:31 mrsdurff : ok
11:31 dwarlick : Just came back in from conference in Madison. What happened?
11:31 snbeach : He is rebooting
11:31 dwaltman : @snbeach...you referring to the cell pone?
11:31 snbeach : yes your comment
11:31 Jackson224 : log out then log in ustream again or stay in room
11:31 snbeach : stay
11:31 snbeach : he will be back
11:31 snbeach : Will is rebooting
11:31 mrsdurff : hi mr warlick!
11:31 featheredflowers : People already fear tech, why give them vocab that makes them think it is easy, therefore they feel dumb.
11:31 akamrt : @snbeach the iPhone with its capability to download podcasts and vidcasts - if a prof records classes makes them available a student can manage their time without the seat time requirement
11:31 wfryer : well, this is a fun way to spend part of my last morning working for "the corporation" :-)
11:32 snbeach : We are down for a minute David.. they will be right back
11:32 akamrt : @dwarlick are you still in Madison, is that Madison, WI?
11:32 ShawnKball-1 : @wfryer: but schools change way too slowly. Is the only way to open alternative schools and get a big percentage to leave typical schools?
11:32 dwarlick : Lo! all. Got to go now. Session's over and I have to leave the room -- the phsical room, that is.
11:32 mrsdurff : sheryl is so positive and encouraging
11:32 dwaltman : the cell phone will essentially be a handheld computer with all the collaborative tools available all the time....it's anytime, anyplace, go at your own pace learning
11:32 snbeach : see you soon.. dwarlick
11:32 jbecker : I'm blaming the outage to @dwarlick's arrival (-:
11:32 metaweb : and we are back
11:32 Jackson224 : on air
11:32 christytucker : back on
11:32 snbeach : ok back
11:32 mrsdurff : @dwaltman it is now
11:32 melching5 : we're on
11:32 snbeach : yes
11:32 featheredflowers : Global Classroom is creating a Mega Moodle for all
11:32 dserrato : gotcha
11:32 jgates513 : in an environment where the right click is disabled abd wikis are blocked, is a conversation about cell phones in the classroom worth the time?
11:32 ShawnKball-1 : back on!
11:32 dwaltman : must be will's new mac
11:32 snbeach : they have been discussing take aways
11:32 featheredflowers : Supported
11:32 dserrato : its better now than before
11:33 dserrato : no echo
11:33 featheredflowers : shared
11:33 wfryer : @ShawnKball-1 i agree the change is not and will not come from within schools. so charters and other out of traditional school venues are the keys for change
11:33 beyondschool : good here.
11:33 Vdub144 : Sorry about that Will - I touched the wrong plug...
11:33 snbeach : yes
11:33 snbeach : we are great
11:33 Jackson224 : yes
11:33 mrsdurff : good audio
11:33 beyondschool : sounds like MY skype ringing :)
11:33 fsinfo : we can hear now
11:33 metaweb : oh oh gone again
11:33 KarenJanowski : to foster change, must reach the opinion leaders
11:33 metaweb : back
11:33 beyondschool : pesky family!
11:33 jbecker : @karenjanowski...who are the opinion leaders?
11:34 ewargo : Rankings such as US News and World Report don't help with discerning good schools...
11:34 wfryer : @KarenJanowski yes, i agree. so what are the most effective ways to reach opinion shapers, policymakers, etc?
11:34 snbeach : See THIS Will- 11:32 dwaltman : the cell phone will essentially be a handheld computer with all the collaborative tools available all the time....it's anytime, anyplace, go at your own pace learning
11:34 KarenJanowski : @jbecker - have to identify them - they are different in each situation
11:34 featheredflowers : The idea of alternative schools is already out there from the past with the concept of Vouchers.
11:34 snbeach : Watch Will multitask.. smile
11:34 jbecker : @wfryer - see my post about going to CoSN instead of or in addition to NECC...that's where more "opinion leaders" are
11:35 mrsdurff : disruptive innovation=education
11:35 ewargo : Charter schools are huge in DE and some here in NJ
11:35 drthomasho : We do just about everything ELSE with cell phones so why not learning?
11:35 nstearns : Who needs an opinion leader? If you have a classroom you are a small baron/baronnette?
11:35 Deacs84 : @wfryer Gladwell does an importnat job, as does Pink, of identifying the need to get the language right and it is our ability to tell the story that makes the difference. If we don't get better at figuring out where the other 80% of our society is, and crafting the "vision" such that they can grab..
11:35 dwaltman : surprised Shirky is hesitant about cell phones
11:35 jbecker : i'm VERY skeptical of using the charter school movement to advance a systemic reform agenda
11:35 snbeach : Who has another Question?
11:35 melching5 : @nstearns not completely true
11:35 snbeach : Please post here
11:35 mrsdurff : i disagree @nstearns
11:35 Deacs84 : @..it, we won't have a tipping point
11:35 fsinfo : Will is typing to someone else isn't he?
11:36 ewargo : @nstearns great point about leading from the classroom...
11:36 featheredflowers : If we could get more multi-age grouped classrooms and teacher looping rather than age specific and teachers only doing one curriculum without being aware of others, we could not sound so futuristic.
11:36 nstearns : Is your school saying you can't use these tools?
11:36 wfryer : @jbecker my view is that the charter school movement is where lots of innovation is happening. i don't see nearly as much innovation in traditional public schools.
11:37 mrsdurff : @nstearns with the baron of the classroom i disagree
11:37 wfryer : what about phones than can be on wifi? yes, clay is addressing this now...
11:37 nstearns : Ah...How about Burgermeister?
11:37 jbecker : @wfryer - maybe more "innovation" than traditional public, but they are still publicly financed and that's a real hindrance to change/innovation
11:37 Jackson224 : I find that the phone is too small to use for extended use of time...but I agree that if we had peripherals it would be good
11:37 shorwitz : Q for Shirky: What argument can be made to school districts that focussing on web 2.0 tech. can make economic sense in the SHORT TERM (which is all they can focus on)?
11:37 akamrt : ? does the numer of tools matter? A computer or e-reader + a phone? Is that enough?
11:37 Deacs84 : @snbeach I would like to ask Shirky about how to define what we want in language that will enable a society to grasp it
11:37 snbeach : @featheredflowers agreed-- ever taught that way? It is such a better way to go.. kids grow exponentially.
11:38 wfryer : @jbecker public funding for education is very important for the goal of universal education for all tho, don't you agree?
11:38 dwaltman : @shorwitz....check out Google for Educators program
11:38 shorwitz : @dwaltman thx
11:38 ewargo : Teacher education is interesting but some research shows that it has little effect on teachers in the actual classroom - McKinsey & Co did some research
11:38 beyondschool : QUESTION: What's your take on teachers going the ways of scribes? Of schools being challenged like the Church was by the abuse protesters?
11:38 featheredflowers : If open source grows the parental generation of a standard will lose its argument and make access easier
11:38 jbecker : @wfryer - can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm not so sure anymore...Horace Mann's dream may be fading
11:38 melching5 : there is still NCLB that lords all...stuck in a cycle...you don't meet NCLB, they don't leave you alone to innovate...to meet NCLB there isn't nearly enough time to innovate
11:38 wfryer : one of the most important keys for digital devices for learning is that the device permits content CREATION by users. We don't need to just buy students kindles, as they are currently configured.
11:38 bwoof : Clay, does the speed of the techo changes in any way have implications for education? Are we going too fast for our biological systems?
11:38 dwaltman : @shorwitz http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/edu/index.html
11:39 mrsdurff : public education was not mandated for all until the industrial revolution
11:39 jbecker : what is "public" anymore anyway?
11:39 snbeach : here here jbecker
11:39 KarenJanowski : @melching5 - do not agree that NCLB limits innovation
11:39 melching5 : @jbecker government funded
11:39 mrsdurff : who says other legislation will be created as a reaction to the information revolution?
11:39 beyondschool : I take it when you folks ask questions of Clay, you mean that other Clay, yes? ;-)
11:40 Deacs84 : @jbecker Applause. I agree about Public Education
11:40 wfryer : @beyondschool we've seen teachers have a role forever. mentor/apprentice learning. roles have shifted and changed, but teachers have never gone away. i don't think they/we will in the future either. we're going to look different and do different things tho.
11:40 snbeach : yes.. that other Clay..
11:40 snbeach : hahah
11:40 KarenJanowski : good teaching is good teaching and will meet NCLB
11:40 jgates513 : AND the threat of lawyers involvement in the public bad behavior
11:40 featheredflowers : We believe kids learn when it is just in time learning, but for teachers we pull or schedule, pay, credit, require, etc. learning in a forced memorization way instead.
11:40 beyondschool : @wfryer: I mean SCHOOLteachers (and schools) which are recent historical accidents.
11:40 dwaltman : what would happen if there was no public education...would society still see value and individuals take more responsibility for their own learning?
11:40 wfryer : public documentation of constructive technology uses by young people is VERY important
11:41 jbecker : @karenjanowski - would you consider re-framing that? Good learning is good learning and will meet NCLB?
11:41 mrsdurff : before the child labor laws where 'adolescence' even a defined age group?
11:41 wfryer : @beyondschool yes, i think that formulation of teachers is going to pass away (figuratively and literally)
11:41 dwaltman : mulitasking myth...i will have to relisten to this interview without the chat room
11:41 KarenJanowski : @jbecker - not sure what you mean, but I do know that just because we teach it doesn't mean they learn it
11:41 melching5 : @ KarenJanowski true...but there is only so much time in a school day, certain communities are forced into government mandated "reforms" that are NOT educationally appropriate much less developmentally appropriate
11:41 Deacs84 : Parents don't understand any of it. They only see Facebook, etc for the public display and possible predator risk...we're "still
11:41 Deacs84 : having that conversation"
11:41 featheredflowers : @dwaltman What would happen if there was no Professional Development...would society still see value and individuals take more responsibility for their own learning?
11:41 mrsdurff : who says 'teens' should do any of those things?
11:42 jennylu : @dwaltman John Medina says we can't multitask - I'm beginning to agree!
11:42 KarenJanowski : @deacs84 - how many of us here are parents? WE GET IT!
11:42 snbeach : yeah!
11:42 mrsdurff : did they for most of human history?
11:42 dwaltman : @featheredflowers...hmmm, personally yes....other staff members, not so much!
11:42 Deacs84 : @featherflowers NO. Because there isn't time to do it. Parents aren't parenting, you think they would help their children LEARN?
11:42 snbeach : finally
11:42 snbeach : The other Clay
11:42 jbecker : @karenjanowski - i'm just trying to move the focus from "teaching" to learning
11:43 mrsdurff : the schools are challenged - internet
11:43 Deacs84 : @karen Yes, you are right. But why am I being asked STILL to speak to parent groups that don't understand what is going on and what the possib are? We are a minority!!
11:43 beyondschool : no, the recent priest abuse pushback from the Catholic laity in the last decade, Will
11:43 featheredflowers : Teachers don't feel their learning is their responsibility. Someone else is supposed to determine what they need to know and how they will learn it.
11:43 scmorgan : My own students said that to me: when they "own the companies" and do the hiring they will be more forgiving of the things adults criticize on social networks now.
11:43 mrsdurff : sad
11:43 akamrt : graffiti, while great art, is despised by most - not unlike the attitudes towards kids experimentation with tech tools to convey learning and emotion
11:43 snbeach : bingo Feathered it comes down to education being a semi prof rather than a real prof
11:43 KarenJanowski : @feathered - yes, is it time to get rid of district mandated PD and encourage self-learning and reflection. other professionals keep abreat of PD on their own
11:43 featheredflowers : Do away with Tenure
11:44 beyondschool : i'm just not getting why the building is necessary for the teacher.
11:44 mrsdurff : collaboration is called cheating
11:44 snbeach : Right Karen-- rather than mandated accountability-- how about mutual accountability
11:44 featheredflowers : Business model makes professionals remain professional or they need to get out of the way for someone who is.
11:44 jbecker : @karenjanowski - other professions do mandate certain numbers of hours of continuing ed.
11:44 dwaltman : who has seen the "flipped classroom" model...
11:44 melching5 : let's not teacher bash...not all believe that
11:44 wfryer : @featheredflowers good luck with that. :-) You are right, of course, that the center of gravity for changing university culture is the tenure process.
11:44 teacherjim : In vocational school collaboratin is everything
11:44 KarenJanowski : @snb- you always have such a great way to articulate it!
11:44 nstearns : @beyondschool Does F-2-F human interaction mean nothing?
11:44 akamrt : took a class from @stager and he said, if you know something and don't share it - THAT is cheating
11:45 ewargo : @feathered doing away with tenure requires change in admins - they need to know what is good
11:45 jgates513 : i loved the assignment of WRITING a wikipedia article!
11:45 featheredflowers : If students will have multiple jobs in life and need to learn and keep up to be a viable part of the market then so do teachers.
11:45 snbeach : jbecker yes-- but they choose what their PD hours will be
11:45 ShawnKball-1 : Adults will have to be more understanding that kids do some odd things as part of their development and it shouldn't stop them from moving on to great things. Skeletons are in most people's closets, right? Politics has shown us this.
11:45 KarenJanowski : @jbecker - agree with sheryl
11:45 beyondschool : nstearns: f2f is possible on a voluntary basis in the community, instead of by coercion in the classroom.
11:45 melching5 : @feathered flowers..of course, as do all professionals
11:45 jbecker : @snbeach - not so much, at least for lawyers
11:45 jgates513 : http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Home+Family/080702/U070208AU.html
11:45 tsand : make learning fun - everyone likes fun
11:45 shorwitz : @jgates513 what a cool idea to assign writing a wikipedia article!
11:45 jbecker : lawyers have to take "canned" courses
11:45 KarenJanowski : if we ended PD, what do you think teachers would do about their own learning?
11:45 featheredflowers : Rather than admin being only evaluators, why not peer input on colleagues teaching pros and cons?
11:45 mrsdurff : teaching the text - it is really only a resource
11:45 beyondschool : think of time saved on the commute, parlay that into social time.
11:45 jbecker : same with psychologists
11:46 wmelnick : Using technology in the classroom mandates learning new software and programs continually - this is either self-taught or at personal expense.
11:46 snbeach : Teachers have little to no choice in what Cont edc hours should be.. just like edc is moving toward student directed learning so should it be with adult learners as well
11:46 KarenJanowski : it's a $550 billion industry
11:46 bwoof : Teachers should not assume that their learning is an administrator's responsibility
11:46 jennylu : @beyondschool -social interaction with peers is still very important
11:46 beyondschool : interesting.
11:46 nstearns : @beyonschool Interesting. Do we all go to Starbucks? The library? My house?
11:46 mrsdurff : mandated public education - not no education
11:46 ShawnKball-1 : oops, no sound
11:46 jbecker : is home schooling "unplugging from society"?
11:46 mrsdurff : there is a difference
11:46 ShawnKball-1 : ok now
11:47 snbeach : there you go-- my point exactly to your "afford" point Beyond
11:47 wfryer : lets face it, parents want and expect babysitting. that perception is a big obstacle to school change like we're discussing.
11:47 featheredflowers : Why do schools still run on the harvest season calendar?
11:47 Deacs84 : anyone else down?
11:47 beyondschool : We get together f2f when we want, where we want. "flash ed-mobs."
11:47 mrsdurff : aren't we doing that now?
11:47 jbecker : @mrsduff - mandated learning, not public education?
11:47 KarenJanowski : @wrfryer - do u really believe that - is that how you feel?
11:47 mrsdurff : everyone here for example
11:47 scmorgan : @jbecker not unplugging, becoming more a part of society
11:47 ewargo : @feathered I agree last month of school is all about shutting down the school just to start in Sept..
11:47 Deacs84 : @wfryer Our society is structured on it.
11:47 melching5 : @ feathered flowers, we are on a year round schedule...not harvest
11:48 wfryer : @featheredflowers schools are governed by conservative boards and have conservative cultures by and large which do not value and reward innovation. hence we still have the old calendar.
11:48 mrsdurff : so why not facilitate students to do the same?
11:48 jbecker : @wfryer - have you read Schank and Jona's piece: Extracurriculars as the Curriculum?
11:48 snbeach : wfryer that is because many see edc as indoctronation of citizenship
11:48 wfryer : @KarenJ I think that is an accurate observation. I'm not saying I think that's how parents should be. I'm saying that is how many parents ARE that I know.
11:48 dwarlick : Is the audio going out a lot?
11:48 ShawnKball-1 : Think of it ---flexibility!!!! It would be good for all to learn when it is most convenient for them and be year-round
11:48 akamrt : school government is vested in maintaining status quo - new learning architecture may very well mean new board organization
11:48 snbeach : woo hoo
11:48 dserrato : great job and thanks for hosting the interview
11:48 snbeach : thanks Clay
11:48 desertjul-1 : thank you!
11:48 fsinfo : thanks
11:48 mrsdurff : @wesfryer which is why I feel mandated K12 will dissolve - probably violently
11:48 akamrt : Thanks!
11:48 Jackson224 : thanks will
11:49 beyondschool : thanks will, clay.
11:49 tsand : thanks Clay
11:49 Deacs84 : thanks!!
11:49 teacherjim : thanks will and clay
11:49 wfryer : @snbeach yes, many view public education more as indoctrination than an opportunity to become free and critical thinkers
11:49 ewargo : thanks Will and Clay!
11:49 mrsdurff : only 81
11:49 featheredflowers : Why not make students teach too? Learn and turn around and teach others. Part of learning is being able to relearn, remix, and share.
11:49 melching5 : thanks will
11:49 dwarlick : Is it over?
11:49 ShawnKball-1 : Awesome event! Thanks! no worries!
11:49 beyondschool : damn technology
11:49 wfryer : yes, thanks to all for this!
11:49 jbecker : Will - Conan and Letterman should fear losing their jobs!
11:49 jennylu : Thanks for doing this Will.
11:49 dwaltman : so much fun! and i got a question commented on by Shirky...awesome!
11:49 snbeach : yes D warlick it is over
11:49 traceymcgrath : Thanks Will, Clay and Sheryl for a great interview!
11:49 dwarlick : Dang!
11:49 wfryer : i hope you recorded this will!
11:49 snbeach : he did Wes
11:49 mrsdurff : Pesce!
11:49 ShawnKball-1 : is there need to continue after interviews?
11:49 scmorgan : Thanks Will and Sheryl
11:49 beyondschool : save the chat and the video!
11:49 wfryer : @snbeach great :-)
11:49 snbeach : I sure will
11:49 Deacs84 : Thanks Sheryl, Will!
11:49 snbeach : send it right away
11:50 desertjul-1 : Great modeling Will!
11:50 dwarlick : Can't hear it anyway. Back to Games+Learning+Society Conference
11:50 snbeach : hahah
11:50 ShawnKball-1 : to better reflect and further the discussion
11:50 mrsdurff : and there he goes
11:50 KarenJanowski : will, impressive how you can multitask
11:50 snbeach : there he goes
11:50 wfryer : oops
11:50 bwoof : goodbye from Canada
11:50 beyondschool : bye all - the other Clay.
11:50 Deacs84 : bey all
11:50 wfryer : well, this was fun folks. thanks to all, and thanks @snbeach for facilitating!
11:50 featheredflowers : I wrote Moodle Magic: Make It Happen and am finishing Open Source Opens Classrooms offered through FTC Publishing.
11:50 ewargo : take care everyone!
11:50 melching5 : @ a hui hou from hawaii
11:50 Deacs84 : bye all (I need typing skills)
11:50 dwaltman : bye everyone...thanks @snbeach
11:50 mrsdurff : that was the highlight of my midmorning
11:50 willrich45 : Thanks everyone...hope you found it useful
11:50 Deacs84 : @featherflowers Just got email from Global Classroom today on Moodle. thanks.
11:50 edueyeview-1 : This was great - thanks! Looking forward to more in the future.
11:51 mrsdurff : @willrich45 interview Mark Pesce
11:51 coten : great first experience with ustream thanks will
11:51 featheredflowers : @Deacs84 featheredflowers on skype.
11:51 willrich45 : durff I might
11:51 mrsdurff : :)
11:51 mrsdurff : bye NJ!
11:51 Deacs84 : @featherflowers LauraWD on Skype, Deacs84 on Twitter
11:52 Deacs84 : Will-glad to be able to join in--
11:52 christytucker : great stuff, thanks for doing this Will and Sheryl
11:52 Deacs84 : thank everyone
11:52 ShawnKball-1 : kimballs on twitter; love learning in a community setting.